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We need more cameras to stop another tragedy
8:31am Wednesday 16th July 2008
A mother whose little boy died in a traffic incident in Swindon says speed cameras should be put every 100 yards on busy roads across the town.
Caroline Hannah's seven-year-old son Tyrese died after being struck by a car near the junction of Belle Vue Road in March.
"It's not only important that we keep speed cameras - there should be more of them," said Caroline, 34, of Old Walcot.
"I think they should be put in every 100 yards.
"Speeding does kill - it can happen.
"People think twice about speeding if they know the cameras are around.
"I think they become more responsible when they know the cameras are there.
"But I know they should be operational on Queens Drive - it's ridiculous that they are not.
"Cameras should be put on Drove Road and Victoria Hill.
"Also on any stretches of dual carriageway, including the Great Western Way.
"It's where you have a blind bend that accidents can happen.
"The council is cutting off its nose off to spite its face."
Tyrese, who attended Lethbridge School, had been walking with his mother, and dog Odi, when a car struck him and his pet.
He was knocked unconscious, and died five-and-a-half hours later at the Great Western Hospital.
Floral tributes and teddy bears have been attached to a lamppost at the spot in Drove Road for the last four months.
Since his death two flashing 30mph signs have been put in place on both sides of Drove Road.
It is a safety measure that has been fully backed by Caroline and her family.
Drove Road has seen a number of incidents in the last seven months.
Just a month before Tyrese died a motorcyclist suffered a broken leg and back injuries after being trapped under a van following a smash near the Grove pub.
In December a car hit a disabled woman as she crossed Drove Road at the Upham Road turning and she was kept in hospital overnight There has been one fatality and 21 injuries on Queens Drive in the last 18 months.
- A 19-year-old man from North Swindon was arrested in connection with Tyrese's death but has not been charged. He has been bailed pending further inquiries to return to Gable Cross police station later this month. It is not yet known whether speeding was a contributory factor to this incident.
Your Say YourSwindon
AnotherCynic, Swindon says...
8:50am Wed 16 Jul 08
I suggest that it would only take around 10 pence a litre on petrol to fund this suggestion. Also, it will provide jobs for administrators to process the tickets.
You cannot put a price on a human life. If it saves one young persons life it will have been worth it.
Will, Swindon says...
8:53am Wed 16 Jul 08
emmylou83, Stratton says...
9:03am Wed 16 Jul 08
chris, swindon says...
9:03am Wed 16 Jul 08
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
9:12am Wed 16 Jul 08
MauriceMalpasClueles
sNumpty, Swindon says...
9:13am Wed 16 Jul 08
PaulD, says...
9:14am Wed 16 Jul 08
What may be more practical and achieve the aim Mrs Hannah would like to see is 'average-speed' cameras along certain routes, although these would still have to be placed at each entry and exit junction. This would probably still be prohibitively expensive though
woodytoothill, Swindon says...
9:19am Wed 16 Jul 08
woodytoothill, Swindon says...
9:20am Wed 16 Jul 08
PaulD wrote:adding onto my point i do honestly feel for the lady and its not a stupid idea but we need realistic affordable ideas.
This poor woman lost her son to a speeding driver. Her idea, is merely impractical, not stupid. What may be more practical and achieve the aim Mrs Hannah would like to see is 'average-speed' cameras along certain routes, although these would still have to be placed at each entry and exit junction. This would probably still be prohibitively expensive though
Thandar, Swindon says...
9:22am Wed 16 Jul 08
This happened at a junction so the car driver should have spotted the person crossing the road and stopped. That failure is the ultimate cause of the accident.
Even if they were going to fast to stop that was still a failure of observance, not speeding,30 in a 30 can easily be too fast in the wrong conditions.
Sadly, a teenager on a scooter was killed in a 5 mph accident in the Oasis car park, would a bunch of cameras in the car park have prevented it?
There are too many distractions in cars these days, including cameras. "driving without due care and attention" should be an imprisonable offence.
Tobz, says...
9:29am Wed 16 Jul 08
You cannot put a price on a human life. If it saves one young persons life it will have been worth it.
(actually, industry can and does put a 'price' on human life all of the time - its why we don't have seatbelts or only rear-facing seats in trains, its why cars still have cd players and other potentially distracting features. its why manufacturers still make cars capable of exceeding the speed limit by massive margins) If we pursue the logic of this old cliche to its logical conclusion, lets reduce the national speed limit to 10mph and ensure a 99.9% reduction in death from traffic accidents - Afterall, 'if it save one young person's life, it'll be worth it'. Protecting human life is about a balance of probability, reasonability and choice. Compromising between these is actually a sign of an adult and free society, surely?
As already commented, surely the crux of this story was whether speed was a contributory factor in ANY of the incidents and accidents named?? Perhaps there's a case for mounting cameras in specific black-spots - but one thing a camera will never detect is stupidity or inattention.
The only effect speed cameras seem to have on locals is that they slow down for the stretch they're on - then speed up again as soon as they're past the spot. I'm not surprised this poor woman would like to see speed cameras every 100 yards as she's lost her son - but its a wish rather than a realistic demand. It seems to me to be a bit like the doctor who recently asked that all knives have their points removed to reduce stabbings.
Frontier(s), says...
9:45am Wed 16 Jul 08
We would also make Jaywalking illegal.
Until both of those things happen, anything else is emotive nonsense, used in a vain attempt to justify the additional revenue that speed cameras bring.
Whilst our highways agencies and planners continue to insist on making our urban area roads deliberately dangerous in an attempt to slow drivers down (drivers who may not ever have been speeding in the first place) I tend to take all this talk of speed cameras as the panacea to all road safety problems with a very large pinch of salt.
Parks and Proud, Swindon says...
9:59am Wed 16 Jul 08
Pav, Swindon says...
10:20am Wed 16 Jul 08
Grumpy old man, Swindon says...
10:25am Wed 16 Jul 08
Also, the lady is contradicting herself:
""Cameras should be put on Drove Road and Victoria Hill.
"Also on any stretches of dual carriageway, including the Great Western Way.
"It's where you have a blind bend that accidents can happen.
"
Eh, how many blind bends are there on Great Western way? How many on drove Road?Victoria Hill?
Incidentally, government policy has for years made junctions deliberately dangerous to slow drivers down, for instance reducing visibility, bunching traffic, chicanes/narrowing of pinch points. It's a disaster wating to happen, and NOTHING to do with speed! Speed is a contributary factor in just 5% of accidents, the governments own figures say so.
Frontier(s), says...
10:45am Wed 16 Jul 08
Pav wrote:From the Adver's report:
Is there any proof that the driver who killed her son was breaking the speed limit?
It is not yet known whether speeding was a contributory factor to this incident.
The accident happened in March. I find it difficult to believe that four months later the police supposedly do not know whether the driver was exceeding the speed limit at the time of the accident.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:18am Wed 16 Jul 08
Frontier(s), says...
11:26am Wed 16 Jul 08
It's part of the concept of traffic 'control' that has been used since the late 70s. The idea is that by making roads deliberately more dangerous you encourage drivers to slow down.
This includes the now common place hedges/signs to obscure the driver's vision to the right on the approach to junctions and roundabouts and numerous other tactics that make roads dangerous for all users.
Why the highways agencies and town planners feel they have the right to gamble with people's lives like this I do not know, but it is a national disgrace and should have been outlawed decades ago.
yeti, swindon says...
12:11pm Wed 16 Jul 08
i suggest making car driving laws alot tougher. 3 strikes and you are out(for life) with regard to speeding.and instant bans for racing,dangerous overtaking etc,etc.
bans should be for ever.non idication and incorrect indication should mean a fine and points too.
Frontier(s), says...
12:25pm Wed 16 Jul 08
People are talking about banning people from driving for LIFE just because they've been caught speeding three times?!?
That means we could well have a situation where people who have hurt absolutely nobody and not negatively affected anyone at all could find themselves on a lifetime driving ban.
This seems absolutely ridiculous when we routinely see serious criminals who very much have hurt people walk away from court with suspended sentences, laughable 'community' sentences and often no punishment whatsoever.
I'm sorry, but this demonisation of people who have done NOTHING but drive a couple of miles per hour over some arbitrary speed limit is not only unfair but completely missing the point.
95% of all road accidents occur where nobody is breaking the speed limit!!
If you think all road accidents can be avoided by simply taking speeding motorists off the road then you will achive virtually NOTHING in terms of reducing road accidents and casualties.
yeti, swindon says...
12:36pm Wed 16 Jul 08
if they obey speed limits and take more care to note the speeds they are doing i expect their general driving to be more aware of the situations they are driving in.people who flout the speeding laws more than likely do other ridiculous and dangerous manouvres.3 chances to get caught speeding should be more than enough.and all laws should be tougher in my opinion.not just driving ones
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
12:36pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Thandar, Swindon says...
1:19pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Most near misses while not in a car have been below the posted limit, this includes idiots reversing out of a turn without looking, overtaking the bicycle and making a left turn before past, half overtaking in the middle of a small roundabout and leaving no room on the exit, pulling out on roundabouts apparantly convinced the rules of the road only apply to cars.
I could go on but it's pointless, you are in control of a deadly weapon and driving below the posted limit does not make you automatically a good driver.
Frontier(s), says...
1:27pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Even if that person has never had an accident, never made an insurance claim and has no other driving licence endorsements?
So, a person who has hurt nobody and caused zero problems should lose their driving licence and, therefore, likely their job and home (and possibly family)?
Seems an awfully high price to pay for not actually causing anyone or anything any problems whatsoever.
And what about the person who never speeds but has an accident every other year (there are plenty of them about, I can assure you)?
Do you simply let them carry on crashing because that's OK as long as they don't break the speed limit?
Global Templar, Marlborough says...
1:28pm Wed 16 Jul 08
yeti, swindon says...
1:30pm Wed 16 Jul 08
the first is a driver who ignores the speed limit repeatedly.the second a bad driver who lacks the skills to be on the road in the first place.
Nic&Gem, Swindon says...
1:56pm Wed 16 Jul 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
2:11pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Nic&Gem wrote:But they haven't determined whether his speed was a factor or not...I'm confused. What would you suggest if it turns out that speed wasn't a factor? Would you still want speed cameras everywhere even though speed had nothing to do with it?
If you had lost a child you would want speed cameras on every stretch of every road in Swindon, to ridicule someones opinion when they have experienced the loss of a child is **** right rude!
Grumpy old man, Swindon says...
2:21pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Nic & Gem - while I have every sympathy for this lady that has lost her son, I most definitely would not want a speed camera on every stretch of road, because I have done ample research on the matter to determine that speed cameras are simply not a good or cost effective solution. Good traffic policing and increased driver standards, including regular re-tests to determine competence are the way forward.
I will repeat as some people don't seem to understand this: Speed alone is a factor in just 5% of all accidents, and of these only a small percentage are actually in excess of the speed limit.
Speed does not kill. Inappropriate speed and driver inattention and a lack of driver skill kills, along with a seeming inability for most other road users (bikes/pedestrians) to follow the road rules.
Nic&Gem, Swindon says...
2:24pm Wed 16 Jul 08
yeti, swindon says...
2:32pm Wed 16 Jul 08
and those that speed along in excess of the speed limits?
our roads are becoming ever more busy.many accidents happen in the middle of the night.
i dont think the current speed limits are too low.people just have no patience and want to get everywhere asap.alot of the time needlessly
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
2:38pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Inappropriate speed for the conditions = bad driving.
Grumpy old man, Swindon says...
2:53pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Yeti, I think I already proposed what should happen about bad drivers.
By the way I notice we are now back to calling them speed cameras rather than "Safety" cameras.
Nic&Gem, Swindon says...
3:00pm Wed 16 Jul 08
worz, Wootton Bassett says...
3:01pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Nic&Gem wrote:If you had lost a child, it is your fault for failing to teach them how to cross the road, nobody elses.
If you had lost a child you would want speed cameras on every stretch of every road in Swindon, to ridicule someones opinion when they have experienced the loss of a child is **** right rude!
Now, I accept that a v.small minority of pedestrian/vehicle collisions take place on the pavement, or when a driver runs a red light, but the vast majority occur when a ped just walks out in front of a car.
I would like to see more red light cameras, though.
Nic&Gem, Swindon says...
3:11pm Wed 16 Jul 08
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grumpy old man, Swindon says...
3:24pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Did you know by the way, that KSI's were falling annually at some rate until the year the government widely adopted the speed camera. Since then the reduction in deaths has levelled off and no progress has been made in the last 10 years at all.
worz, Wootton Bassett says...
3:38pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Nic&Gem wrote:In which case, yes, the child and parents did nothing wrong. The driver should be done for causing death by dangerous driving, unless road conditions were a factor, spilt diesel, huge potholes or somesuch.
This accident was a case of the car mounting the pavement!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Frontier(s), says...
3:46pm Wed 16 Jul 08
I have absolutely every sympathy for her and her loss but asking her to comment on speed cameras is unfair on her and does not offer anything like balanced reporting.
If your child is killed by a motorist you instinctively want to 'punish' all motorists, put speed cameras everywhere, ban bad drivers etc.
That's considered a normal, understandable reaction.
It doesn't, however, make it the right reaction.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:54pm Wed 16 Jul 08
unless road conditions were a factor, spilt diesel, huge potholes or somesuch.
And they should suffer the same even then - it's still not paying adequate attention to the conditions on the road.
worz, Wootton Bassett says...
4:15pm Wed 16 Jul 08
LordBelacqua wrote:Not so. Oil spills are invisible. I know, I suffer from diesel more than most, since I ride a bike. If I'm lucky, it's a fresh spill, and it smells. If it's been there a while, then it doesn't smell, and the first that I know is when the bike wriggles and the engine revs. If I'm braking at the time, and the front wheel locks, then down I go. Someone once described it to me as like trying to ride through washing up liquid. A few weeks later I found out that he was right <shudder>. Mushed leaves are nearly as bad.
unless road conditions were a factor, spilt diesel, huge potholes or somesuch.
And they should suffer the same even then - it's still not paying adequate attention to the conditions on the road.
That's why I avoid riding in the middle of the lane, that's where most of the oil is, I ride in the wheel track nearest the white line.
Frontier(s), says...
4:25pm Wed 16 Jul 08
LordBelacqua wrote:So, if a motorist skids on black ice that's their fault?
unless road conditions were a factor, spilt diesel, huge potholes or somesuch.And they should suffer the same even then - it's still not paying adequate attention to the conditions on the road.
Careful LordB, if you're claiming that all motorists are entirely responsible for what happens to them and their vehicle at all times then your logic also dictates that pedestrians are entirely responsible for their own safety also...
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:43pm Wed 16 Jul 08
pedestrians are entirely responsible for their own safety also...
Shocking that, that it may require the pedestrian to keep themselves safe?
And if it's cold enough for ice to form, then the motorist should be taking his/her driving into consideration when setting off - they need to pay more attention to what their car is doing and drive at a slower speed to minimise the chance of an accident in case of black ice. They may inevitably slide on it, but at least they will have made some effort to minimise the damage to themselves and others rather than setting out as normal - thus absolving themselves of blame by taking measures to avoid injuring someone.
Frontier(s), says...
5:13pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Using your logic, any pedestrian involved in an accident is as much to blame as the driver. After all, if they'd taken fully adequate precautions to keep themselves safe, they'd never have been hit in the first place.
Dick-Turpin, Swindon says...
7:02pm Wed 16 Jul 08
The cost of erecting and maintaining that many cameras would be ridiculous, the cost of installing one Gatso speed camera is approximately £20,000, but can cost as much as £40,000 if located in a rural location, as the system requires a 240v power supply. Do we taxpayers really want to be funding that; I do not that's certain!
I do feel that motorists should be reassessed on their driving abilities and depending on the results should recommended a re-test following a minimum amount of lessons, at the drivers expense, perhaps this will encourage drivers to rethink the way they drive. Fail and you are off the road one less dangerous/reckless driver.
MauriceMalpasClueles
sNumpty, Swindon says...
8:14pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Nic&Gem wrote:How would a camera have stopped this. What the council is suggesting is to look at new measures which could include spending the lost 400k on higher pavements, railings by traffic lights, one way systems, 20 mph in town speed limit. Any new measures should be welcomed as a camera does nothing to prevent such tragic events other than generating 3points and 60 pounds for Gordon brown to spend on a new kitchen in his 3rd house on his expenses. Don't kill inovation or freedom of speech as that is what used to be what made Britain great b4 we had to be politically correct about everything
This accident was a case of the car mounting the pavement!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
8:14pm Wed 16 Jul 08
MauriceMalpasClueles
sNumpty, Swindon says...
8:16pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Nic&Gem wrote:How would a camera have stopped this. What the council is suggesting is to look at new measures which could include spending the lost 400k on higher pavements, railings by traffic lights, one way systems, 20 mph in town speed limit. Any new measures should be welcomed as a camera does nothing to prevent such tragic events other than generating 3points and 60 pounds for Gordon brown to spend on a new kitchen in his 3rd house on his expenses. Don't kill inovation or freedom of speech as that is what used to be what made Britain great b4 we had to be politically correct about everything
This accident was a case of the car mounting the pavement!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Young Tyrese Hannah pictured with his mother Caroline
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Old_Chap, Swindon says...
8:35am Wed 16 Jul 08