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Do you support the council strike?
9:54am Wednesday 16th July 2008
COUNCIL workers are on strike today, leaving services disrupted in Swindon.
Libraries are closed, recycling will not be collected and some schools are shut during the two-day stoppage.
Council workers are in dispute with the Government over pay. Union Unison has rejected a 2.45 per cent increase, saying given the rate of inflation, it is effectively a pay cut.
- Do you support the council strike? Or has it caused you problems with child care or forced you to take a day off work? Let us know your feelings about the strike below.
Schools closed
Brimble Hill School, in Redhouse, Crowdys Hill School, in Jefferies Avenue, Penhill Primary School and Ruskin Junior School, in Wordsworth Drive, in Stratton, and The Children's Nursery in Drove Road
are all closed.
Peatmoor Primary School is open today but will close tomorrow.
- Please note, the ballot on the council strike has now closed. Thank you for voting. The results and a selection of your comments will appear in tomorrow's Adver.
Your Say YourSwindon
Andy_C, Swindon says...
10:25am Wed 16 Jul 08
No - get back to work and welcome to the real world!! you lot have had it easy for years!
Grumpy, Swindon says...
10:46am Wed 16 Jul 08
My pension hasn't been keeping up with inflation any more than most peoples incomes, so I can't see how council workers are a special case for an above inflation payrise.
In the present economic climate the council workers should be concentrating on hanging on to their jobs rather than putting them at risk through strike action.
When bin collections become monthly and then yearly we won't want many binmen at all. Cuts will have to be made to fund councilors expenses and the high salaries paid to all the council executives!
In the present economic climate the council workers should be concentrating on hanging on to their jobs rather than putting them at risk through strike action.
When bin collections become monthly and then yearly we won't want many binmen at all. Cuts will have to be made to fund councilors expenses and the high salaries paid to all the council executives!
Frontier(s), says...
10:58am Wed 16 Jul 08
And thus the summer of discontent rumbled onwards.
Go now, Gordon, while you can still pretend you have some dignity left.
Go now, Gordon, while you can still pretend you have some dignity left.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:04am Wed 16 Jul 08
To be honest will anyone notice the difference. Seriously though, does this work out include the capita workers, because I have been waiting for a reply from them.?
Robin Harris, Swindon says...
11:11am Wed 16 Jul 08
The strike is right because it raises the anomoly of having two rates of inflation. One for pay rises and one that represents real inflation.
Putting diesel in my car at at £1.32 my shopping bill has gone up by 15% and as for fuel bills who can say what real inflation is 10%, 15% or more.
This real inflation rate is something we can do nothing about. We simply in real terms get poorer affording less 'luxuries'.
Putting diesel in my car at at £1.32 my shopping bill has gone up by 15% and as for fuel bills who can say what real inflation is 10%, 15% or more.
This real inflation rate is something we can do nothing about. We simply in real terms get poorer affording less 'luxuries'.
Robin Harris, Swindon says...
11:14am Wed 16 Jul 08
The bit missed off.
less 'luxuries' like bread, water and other things that were once called essentials.
less 'luxuries' like bread, water and other things that were once called essentials.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:22am Wed 16 Jul 08
Robin, it may highlight this but what has to be remembered is any substantial pay rise would mean either a reduction in the already pretty pathetic services we no have , staff lay offs, more inefficient out sourcing or an increase in local taxation. Council staff will create a no win situation for themselves and rate payers.
Gavia Immer, Old Town - Swindon says...
11:25am Wed 16 Jul 08
Living a life of diminishing returns is no fun for anyone and no one should have to see inflation rising faster than their pension or wages but the reality is that it happens sometimes and only you can do something about it. Change jobs to get more pay or find some way to supplement your income if you're not happy with what you have.
If you're not willing to help yourself then please don't condemn people who are actively trying to help themselves. Follow their example and do something about your own situation.
If you're not willing to help yourself then please don't condemn people who are actively trying to help themselves. Follow their example and do something about your own situation.
Frontier(s), says...
11:34am Wed 16 Jul 08
I've been away from the UK for a week or so but did hear that several national newspapers have established that the REAL rate of inflation in the UK is now c.18%
This, of course, is somewhat higher than Darling and Broon's laughable 'official' figure of just over 3%.
I don't suppose many people will get an 18% pay rise this year. Most would be highly unlikely to realise such a pay increase even if they did get a better job.
For the vast majority of people on a wage in the UK, the end of 2008 will see them poorer in real terms... and that's if they're lucky enough to still have a job.
About 3000 jobs have already gone in the construction sector and many more job losses are on the way.
The credit crunch/recession has barely made a dent yet.
This, of course, is somewhat higher than Darling and Broon's laughable 'official' figure of just over 3%.
I don't suppose many people will get an 18% pay rise this year. Most would be highly unlikely to realise such a pay increase even if they did get a better job.
For the vast majority of people on a wage in the UK, the end of 2008 will see them poorer in real terms... and that's if they're lucky enough to still have a job.
About 3000 jobs have already gone in the construction sector and many more job losses are on the way.
The credit crunch/recession has barely made a dent yet.
tibbie, swindon says...
11:50am Wed 16 Jul 08
whislt I do agree with the nature of the strike purpose in some aspects, but I don't think it's right that children's education should be affected
swindon_girl_1986, ABBEYMEADS, SWINDON says...
11:54am Wed 16 Jul 08
i am on basic wage and my work accept a 2% payrise and seeming as i never see any improvement in swindon roads or the rubbish on the streets in town centre and around swindon i wonder what the council are doing with our moeny by the looks of it all the money is going to their staff!
yeti, swindon says...
12:05pm Wed 16 Jul 08
i fully back those on strike.they generally get paid a pittance as it is.i think strikes like this will become more frequent from many other different workforces
timetomove, swindon says...
12:07pm Wed 16 Jul 08
If you dont like your job, GET A NEW ONE ! Lazy sods. How can they justify a payrise ? Drive around Swindon and you'll see plenty of council vans doing nothing with people sat inside reading the paper or having a cup of tea. ESPECIALLY the road maintenance gangs. The laughable thing about this is if you ask ANY of the council staff they say they have a cushy job and don't do much !! Then the lazy sods EXPECT a payrise.
yeti, swindon says...
12:13pm Wed 16 Jul 08
what about the teaching assistants in schools? the mid day supervisors? leisure centre staff,the bin men? etc,etc, these people work hard for a pittance.if they didn't others wouldn't be beating the door down to take their jobs. they deserve more!
swindon_girl_1986, ABBEYMEADS, SWINDON says...
12:33pm Wed 16 Jul 08
yeti wrote:Yeti to be honest they already get paid more than most of the people in swindon including people like myself who get abuse from people in and around swindon! we accepted our pay rise beceause we knew its either that or nothing go on strike and you can lose your job NOT THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD EVER DO THAT but bin men plenty of them i'm sure the council can lsoe a few leisure centre staff only mainly needed in evenings and weekend so cut down the horus mid day supervisers etc etc TELL THEM TO ACTUALLY WORK AND THEY WILL GET A PAYRISE they get enough money as it is yes i would be with them on the strike if they were being offered less than 2.25% but anything over that i think is rediculas i'm sorry but they don't deserve anything above a 2% payrise simple as that
what about the teaching assistants in schools? the mid day supervisors? leisure centre staff,the bin men? etc,etc, these people work hard for a pittance.if they didn't others wouldn't be beating the door down to take their jobs. they deserve more!
BWB, SWINDON says...
12:54pm Wed 16 Jul 08
I dread to even think of next years
Council Tax. The Council will need extra office staff to
send out all the final
demand notices.
Perhaps we all should stage a Council Tax
strike. Cant pay,wont pay.Its obvious they cant jail every one.
Be like the French,
stick together and fight them.
Council Tax. The Council will need extra office staff to
send out all the final
demand notices.
Perhaps we all should stage a Council Tax
strike. Cant pay,wont pay.Its obvious they cant jail every one.
Be like the French,
stick together and fight them.
yeti, swindon says...
12:57pm Wed 16 Jul 08
swindon_girl_1986 wrote:i'm sorry but you dont seem to have a clue what you are on about.
yeti wrote: what about the teaching assistants in schools? the mid day supervisors? leisure centre staff,the bin men? etc,etc, these people work hard for a pittance.if they didn't others wouldn't be beating the door down to take their jobs. they deserve more!Yeti to be honest they already get paid more than most of the people in swindon including people like myself who get abuse from people in and around swindon! we accepted our pay rise beceause we knew its either that or nothing go on strike and you can lose your job NOT THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD EVER DO THAT but bin men plenty of them i'm sure the council can lsoe a few leisure centre staff only mainly needed in evenings and weekend so cut down the horus mid day supervisers etc etc TELL THEM TO ACTUALLY WORK AND THEY WILL GET A PAYRISE they get enough money as it is yes i would be with them on the strike if they were being offered less than 2.25% but anything over that i think is rediculas i'm sorry but they don't deserve anything above a 2% payrise simple as that
schools cleaners,mid day supervisors etc get barely above min wage as it is.this is not paid the full year as the school holidays = no pay.dont you think those jobs are hard work?the same goes for teaching assistants who alot of the time get lumbered with whole classes when teachers are off.again,they dont get paid all year.
most of these workers dop those jobs as it fits in with family life and school hours.if they didn't work they would maybe be sat at home on benefits.
your sweeping generalisation is full of inaccuracys i'm afraid.
bin men work very hard so why should they not fight for more pay?
it is alright people saying i only get this,i only get that.that is their business.but why slate others because they strike for what they believe?
m0bcg, south marston says...
1:08pm Wed 16 Jul 08
council workers wouldnt know what a days work is if it was sat down in front of them .
its not just laid back on the council , its lying down .
we are paying a huge amount of money to employ them all and they should work as hard as the rest of us have to .
these people keep trying to make out they are somehow more important than anyone else in the country is and that they deserve more .
they are no more entitled to anything than anyone else is .
its not just laid back on the council , its lying down .
we are paying a huge amount of money to employ them all and they should work as hard as the rest of us have to .
these people keep trying to make out they are somehow more important than anyone else in the country is and that they deserve more .
they are no more entitled to anything than anyone else is .
BWB, SWINDON says...
1:25pm Wed 16 Jul 08
m0bcg wrote:CORRECT.
council workers wouldnt know what a days work is if it was sat down in front of them . its not just laid back on the council , its lying down . we are paying a huge amount of money to employ them all and they should work as hard as the rest of us have to . these people keep trying to make out they are somehow more important than anyone else in the country is and that they deserve more . they are no more entitled to anything than anyone else is .
One hole,one shovel,
and four men waching.
Need i say more.
Gavia Immer, Old Town - Swindon says...
1:27pm Wed 16 Jul 08
For those of you who don't have the experience of working in both the public and the private sector, I can assure you that you work harder for what you get in public sector and for less. And I think it's unfortunate that people like swindon_girl_1986 and timetomove seem to little understand or appreciate the vital and necessary services provided by a local council.
We are all entitled to our opinions, whatever they may be, but wouldn't it be better if more of them were based on fact rather than conjecture?
We are all entitled to our opinions, whatever they may be, but wouldn't it be better if more of them were based on fact rather than conjecture?
BWB, SWINDON says...
1:34pm Wed 16 Jul 08
CORRECT.
One hole,one shovel,
and four men waching.
Need i say more .
I am sure many drivers who have been held up at road works
will agree my comment above is based on FACT
One hole,one shovel,
and four men waching.
Need i say more .
I am sure many drivers who have been held up at road works
will agree my comment above is based on FACT
Harry Potter, Swindon says...
1:34pm Wed 16 Jul 08
BWB wrote:You know less than nothing. The Council is a very large employer & it is very silly of you to tar every employee with the same brush. Do some research before making pointless comments. I probably work harder than the pair of you put together...assuming that you have jobs at all.
m0bcg wrote: council workers wouldnt know what a days work is if it was sat down in front of them . its not just laid back on the council , its lying down . we are paying a huge amount of money to employ them all and they should work as hard as the rest of us have to . these people keep trying to make out they are somehow more important than anyone else in the country is and that they deserve more . they are no more entitled to anything than anyone else is .CORRECT. One hole,one shovel, and four men waching. Need i say more.
BWB, SWINDON says...
1:44pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Harry Potter, Swindon on
Harry i doubt it.
I was throwing it well back befor your
JCB was thought of,and all concrete was mixed by hand not a machine.I was born at the wrong time.
There are no HARD jobs now.
Harry i doubt it.
I was throwing it well back befor your
JCB was thought of,and all concrete was mixed by hand not a machine.I was born at the wrong time.
There are no HARD jobs now.
dav, Central Swindon says...
2:01pm Wed 16 Jul 08
You seem to be forgetting about all the people working in the care industry. Home carers who visit vulnerable people at home as bring a little bit of life to older people's daily routine. The social workers who put their life on the line to help young people from calling through the cracks. Stop just thinking its about a bunch of road builders. These people working in the care industry are working for low wages yet do jobs that require the most care and attention. I think they deserve a pay rise so they dont become vulnerable themselves. Society is measured on how it treats it's must vulnerable. Most of you on here seem to be happy to push more people into this vulnerable gap. I like most of you work for a commerical company making lots of money, but not giving much back. It must be tough on the honda producing line earning stacks of cash for you and Honda but not giving anything back. Maybe if everyone took up voluntary work to help vulnerable people it would change the way you see people working at the Council.
dav, Central Swindon says...
2:02pm Wed 16 Jul 08
sorry I typed that very quickly so try and ignore all the mistakes.. Doh!!
timetomove, swindon says...
2:06pm Wed 16 Jul 08
The answer is simple, IF YOU DONT LIKE THE PAY THEN FIND A JOB THAT DOES FFS ! In the case of most council workers that means getting off their arse to do it, in which case they cant be bothered !
Chris, Swindon says...
2:13pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Gavia, I too have worked in both the public and private sectors, both in white collar roles. My experience was that the culture in the public sector, at two different South Coast County Councils, was more relaxed than subsequent private sector roles, but for less reward. In both organisations the staff tended to stick pretty ridgedly to their contracted hours and at one we had a flexi-time system which ensured that all additional hours were recognised. Added to this was the opportunity to rise up through a series of 'points' on the salary grading scale, which would mean that for most achieving staff an annual increase would be above the stated average.
Conversely in the private sector I have been motivated to work harder and along with most of my colleagues have been willing to continually go the extra mile for the businesses, for which we have received comparably better salaries and benefits.
At the end of the day if people want to work in a public sector culture, with the associated job security, flexible working, part time roles, secure final salary pensions etc. then they can not expect the same level of reward for doing so - it is a trade off.
As I have stated in response to another story I believe that in a country that has a minimum wage, provided an individual works for a law abiding employer they should never go on strike over pay. Their solution is to move on to a higher paid role, if they can not do so then they have reached their peak earning potential. Pay is based on supply and demand for skills, that fact that an individual is relatively poorer or otherwise from one year to the next is not relevant.
Conversely in the private sector I have been motivated to work harder and along with most of my colleagues have been willing to continually go the extra mile for the businesses, for which we have received comparably better salaries and benefits.
At the end of the day if people want to work in a public sector culture, with the associated job security, flexible working, part time roles, secure final salary pensions etc. then they can not expect the same level of reward for doing so - it is a trade off.
As I have stated in response to another story I believe that in a country that has a minimum wage, provided an individual works for a law abiding employer they should never go on strike over pay. Their solution is to move on to a higher paid role, if they can not do so then they have reached their peak earning potential. Pay is based on supply and demand for skills, that fact that an individual is relatively poorer or otherwise from one year to the next is not relevant.
Gavia Immer, Old Town - Swindon says...
2:41pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Interesting view Chris, except for the myth of job security (look at the redundancies and outsourding at Swindon), and that part time roles and secure pensions exist in private sector as well, I fail to see where there is an advantage so great as to make less pay acceptable.
And a relaxed culture can be found in many organisations if that's what you seek. I didn't find it in public sector but culture can vary greatly from one organisation to another even in the same industry.
Perhaps this is also a place to bring op the market rate scheme in Swindon that keeps even private sector jobs at a lower pay than would be had if true competition existed for employees.
Having a skill set that can be utilised by a number of industries, I've worked in a variety of organisations both in the UK and abroad, and based on that experience I support the right of workers to strike.
Organisations in both public and private sector should recognise that if securing and retaining good staff is important than they need to ensure that working conditions, pay, and advancement potential are suitable for that purpose. If a strike is necessary to reinforce that message than it should take place.
And a relaxed culture can be found in many organisations if that's what you seek. I didn't find it in public sector but culture can vary greatly from one organisation to another even in the same industry.
Perhaps this is also a place to bring op the market rate scheme in Swindon that keeps even private sector jobs at a lower pay than would be had if true competition existed for employees.
Having a skill set that can be utilised by a number of industries, I've worked in a variety of organisations both in the UK and abroad, and based on that experience I support the right of workers to strike.
Organisations in both public and private sector should recognise that if securing and retaining good staff is important than they need to ensure that working conditions, pay, and advancement potential are suitable for that purpose. If a strike is necessary to reinforce that message than it should take place.
Mick out West, West Swindon says...
2:54pm Wed 16 Jul 08
If they do not collect the refuse and re-cycling etc. I wonder if there will be overtime available for them to catch up ?
Grimly Feendish, Swindon says...
3:58pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Do you realise how much I had to pay out for a child-minder today to look after my child???
Just ONE child??
Ooops! These Teaching Assistants look after 30 children. Not just ONE. Not just looking after them but educating them too.
Hmmm... Perhaps they deserve more than £6000 a year.
Just ONE child??
Ooops! These Teaching Assistants look after 30 children. Not just ONE. Not just looking after them but educating them too.
Hmmm... Perhaps they deserve more than £6000 a year.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
4:01pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Grimly Feendish wrote:Depending on the school they can get up to £12k a yr but I agree that is still extremely pants for the work they do.
Do you realise how much I had to pay out for a child-minder today to look after my child??? Just ONE child?? Ooops! These Teaching Assistants look after 30 children. Not just ONE. Not just looking after them but educating them too. Hmmm... Perhaps they deserve more than £6000 a year.
Beaker you Muppet!, swindon says...
4:10pm Wed 16 Jul 08
everyone i meet who say that council workers are lazy have never worked at the council, on the whole the majority of workers work very hard with very little return
Grimly Feendish, Swindon says...
4:30pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Coming to think of it, I paid the best part of £80 for a minder to look after my child due to the school being shut.
£80 x 30 children is £2400 A DAY
You do the rest of the maths!!!
£80 x 30 children is £2400 A DAY
You do the rest of the maths!!!
Whoeever, Swindon says...
6:06pm Wed 16 Jul 08
If you went into the Council offices today, I think you would be very surprised at how many staff were in there. Capita weren't included, large numbers of officers were at their desks and I saw a good number of bin lorries around the town; bit of a damp squib really.
Dick-Turpin, Swindon says...
7:29pm Wed 16 Jul 08
If workers are prepared to stand up and defend their colleagues rights to fairer pay then well done to them, they are prepared to lose 2 days pay and contributions into their pensions for what they believe in. They are not in the financial position to strike but they do it anyway well those who care about their fellow workers do!
Why criticise those that are fighting for better pay rather than take the easy option and claim full time benefits.
Why criticise those that are fighting for better pay rather than take the easy option and claim full time benefits.
BigM, swindon says...
7:45pm Wed 16 Jul 08
The fact of these workers being under or overpaid is irrelevant. Striking is outdated and unethical. If you do not like your job, its pay or conditions, just leave and go elsewhere.
MauriceMalpasClueles
sNumpty, Swindon says...
8:23pm Wed 16 Jul 08
stupid question or what. Civil servants are better paid than ever before and still get to retire early and expect a job for life for the same rubbish service. Whereas in the private sector we get little extra money, have to earn it, and will lucky to retire ever on. Sack them now lazy gits
Neil, Swindon says...
10:40pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Whilst I accept people's comments about 'if you don't like your job, then leave' or 'they're greedy for wanting over the rate of inflation' or 'rubbish services, must be all the money being spent on staff' Sorry but bull **** to your close mindedness.. All they want is a pay rise to match inflation, pretty much what everyone wants.. And you know what, if you don't fight for it, you won't get it. I fought hard for my 5% wage rise this year, which I am thankful for.
So someone who earns 15k a year (for example...optimistic
ally the average council employee earns a year) gets a 2.5% pay rise, simple maths = £375 - tax & NI = £288 (approx) / 12 (months) = £24 a month extra... You all think thats a fair amount?
Now MauriceMalpasClueles
s sNumpty... you really need to shut the hell up, you know what, if you think it's so much better working as a civil servent, go get a job there, and you will see that they don't have it as easy as you think. I know a couple of people that work for SBC, and believe me, they are not paid better than before.. I'd like to see some facts and figures of your assumptions...
I agree with the strike, and those you saw not on strike, were most likely Sub-contractors (like capita and some of the collection services)
I agree with anyone who wants a wage rise equal to the true rate of inflation.
So someone who earns 15k a year (for example...optimistic
ally the average council employee earns a year) gets a 2.5% pay rise, simple maths = £375 - tax & NI = £288 (approx) / 12 (months) = £24 a month extra... You all think thats a fair amount?
Now MauriceMalpasClueles
s sNumpty... you really need to shut the hell up, you know what, if you think it's so much better working as a civil servent, go get a job there, and you will see that they don't have it as easy as you think. I know a couple of people that work for SBC, and believe me, they are not paid better than before.. I'd like to see some facts and figures of your assumptions...
I agree with the strike, and those you saw not on strike, were most likely Sub-contractors (like capita and some of the collection services)
I agree with anyone who wants a wage rise equal to the true rate of inflation.
john c, swindon says...
10:54pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Grimly Feendish, wrote,
I paid the best part of £80 for a minder to look after my child due to the school being shut.
Grimly, (nice name),
I do not know where you get your child care from but the going rate for a childminder is £3-£4 an hour so unless your child was in their care for 20 hours you were ripped off.
dav, Central Swindon says...
10:54pm Wed 16 Jul 08
correct me if I am wrong but most of the people on strike are not civil servants
Chris, Swindon says...
11:56pm Wed 16 Jul 08
Grimly Feendish wrote:So based on these optimistic assumptions any 'teaching assistant' with a reasonable grasp of business sense would be branching out and setting up their own child minding business?
Coming to think of it, I paid the best part of £80 for a minder to look after my child due to the school being shut. £80 x 30 children is £2400 A DAY You do the rest of the maths!!!
We might be discussing £6-12k per annum, but of course this is pro-rata, taking into account perhaps 13 weeks of school holidays and for an assistant's role (not a teacher, mind) a working week that might be considered less than the average for full-time employment?
I am not seeking to be mean, but why do people consider 2.45% to be unreasonable? Perhaps some people would feel marginally less well off compared to last year, but how about on a 10 or 20 year trend? Many consumer goods have become relatively cheaper over that period - despite the rising cost of fuel it is still relatively cheaper to run a car now than it was 10 years ago, that car will more than likely have air-conditioning and other features as standard, which would have been expensive 'extras' 10 years ago, chart CD's can now be had for less than £10, cheaper than 10 years ago. Many less well off people seem to be able to afford 'luxuries' such as mobile phones, cable or satelite TV, internet access (even a home computer), even a chicken for dinner which in the 1960's and '70s was an relatively expensive item for a meal.
For all the striking and marching and protesting on the news programmes tonight, perhaps we are not really as badly off as some of us like to think? At the end of the day a roof over your head and food in your stomach are essentials, how much of your income do you end up spending on 'loftfillers' or food that ends up in the bin?
worz, Wootton Bassett says...
2:55pm Thu 17 Jul 08
why do people consider 2.45% to be unreasonable?
Because, even by the government's figures, life is now 4.8% more expensive than it was last year. Certain things have gone up even more. Which all amounts to a pay cut i.e. less money for the same work. It's not surprising that people are cheesed off.
Your sayYourSwindon
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A Tax Payer, Peatmoor says...
10:14am Wed 16 Jul 08